Building a Legacy: Financial Wisdom for Future Generations with Sherry Finkel Murphy

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice and wisdom of women in business.

A new model of leadership is emerging and we are here to amplify the voices of women leading the way.

I am your host, Coco Selman, five time founder, impact investor and creator of the Force for Good system.

Thank you for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

Today we have a financial firestarter in our midst.

Sherry Finkel Murphy, Founder and CEO of Madrina Molly, the on demand CFP for women of a certain agency.

After selling her successful financial planning practice, Sheri launched Madrina Molly to provide subscription based financial and longevity planning, education through storytelling, Q and A and empowering mini courses.

She's on a mission to show women 50 and over that we have more Runway than we think financially and in life that reinvention is always within reach.

A trusted collaborator to financial advisors and a fierce advocate for women's financial independence, Sheri bridges the gap between professional planning and real world empowerment.

Her signature mantra, hashtag not young, not done reminds us that wisdom compounds and women can and will rescue ourselves.

Thank you for being here.

Welcome Sheri.

Thank you so much for having me and thank you for that awesome introduction.

I'm going to bring you along with me wherever I go.

Oh, you are an easy person to tell wonderful stories about.

You light up every room you go into and I have loved getting to know you and hearing you speak and share your wisdom.

So as we always begin, what is a book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your life?

I had trouble choosing, but I'm gonna go with the early one.

When I was maybe a tween, my mother gave me her copy of Betty Smith's A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.

Did you read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn?

I have to tell you the funniest thing.

My guest who was on last week recommended the same book.

So this was a pivotal story at the turn.

It was written in the Second World War.

My mother was a teenager as it all went down.

It is the story of Irish immigrants in Brooklyn and Francie Nolan's perseverance as she grows from a tween to a teen, gets a job in New York City and moves on.

It begins with her relationship to her parents and her relationship to the community.

It ends with her visiting her old neighborhood and looking at another young girl sitting in the window of the tenement and wishing her well.

As each generation continues, it's a young girl story of perseverance.

I think it holds up even though turn of the century Brooklyn is very different from the world we live in.

The metaphor of the tree is the tree of heaven.

Truth be told, it's an invasive Chinese species, but it is a tree that finds a way through the concrete to grow and reach the sky.

And that's Francie Nolan, the protagonist.

Amazing.

I love this.

And I have not read this book and now it's come upon us, myself and the listeners today twice.

And I think it's imperative we all go get a copy of this book.

I love the way you talk about it, the Girl's Story of Perseverance.

It still makes me cry.

I recommend the movie.

If you can't find the book, I recommend the movie.

I love it.

Wonderful.

Well, thank you for this wonderful way for us to start our discussion.

And it gives us a sense of who you are and how much you value perseverance and tenacity and figuring things out, figuring out how to keep going and survive and thrive.

So I would love to hear a little bit more about you as a human.

I love to start out with our guests asking about three moments that have shaped you in your life.

Three things could be business, could be personal.

Three moments that stand out to you that say, yep, that shaped who I am today.

Could be great moments, could be hard moments.

What comes to mind for you?

It is the tough moments that are the most informative.

Absolutely.

I'm going to tell you the one positive thing, and that is that I have a mother who will turn 98 in January, and there's nothing wrong with her.

So the through thread of my life is, oh, I may not be able to outrun you, but I will outlast you.

The beauty of playing the long game is that eventually you win by attrition.

That isn't lost on me.

And it isn't lost on successful women that, oh my gosh, they told us we didn't have time.

But once we are relieved of youthful beauty, once we are relieved of the I have to look good and the I have to be liked, the whole world opens up.

And the sooner we learn that, the better.

I love the fact that my nieces, my stepdaughter, my grandchildren, they are far less burdened than we were about that.

So that's one.

One is I want to say that mom who said if you wait for a man to bring you the good things in life, you will be waiting a long time.

That message I heard early, go get it.

You want something, go get it.

You don't have to go through anybody to get it.

And that meant work for it.

That meant work for it.

The second time I'm going to go with the biggest no that I ever received.

And that was when I made the request to go into sales.

I was a technical solutions specialist back in the day when we sold hardware, software services, altogether very expensive, big ticket items, very long sales cycles.

I wanted to go into sales because I was doing all the work.

And the very handsome blue suited men with the yellow power ties were getting all the commission checks.

The long story short is that they would not permit me and I was such a pain that they created a compensation plan that today would be an instant lawsuit.

It would be a Lilly Ledbetter lawsuit.

But I said yes.

And weren't they shocked when I said yes?

I was the rookie of the year and it became a very good career.

That was my first career in technology, sales, sales leadership and sales coaching.

It taught me a lot about people.

It taught me to be self reliant and it taught me that if it's meant to be, it's up to me.

Just like mom said.

That's right.

And you obviously persevered and they gave you a no, but it didn't stay a no.

Right.

And that is that.

I successfully coached a sales team via my sales performance office.

I had a particular executive function adjunct to the sales leadership and we had 800 sales representatives.

Our goal was to go from 600 million in revenue to a billion dollars in revenue when we could be acquired by one of the big three, which at the time was SAP, Oracle and IBM.

We got to a billion, a very large company acquired us.

They paid my lovely retention bonus, stood me in a corner and said, we develop our executive talent in house here.

You can stay or go, but we don't care what you know.

I thought, you have got to be kidding me, right?

I was 48 and I'm thinking I am not even close to done.

I was just getting started.

I was furious.

That was ultimately the impetus to say, I want my own business.

What do I want to do?

It was my financial planner and mentor who said, you know, you should be a financial planner specifically for your cohort.

You are the first generation.

I went into the workforce in the early 80s.

You were the first generation with the expectation that you could do anything.

You're going to leave School, you're going to go get a job.

My mother was shocked when I graduated from college and Citibank sent me a solicitation.

Here's a credit card of the Fair Credit Act.

Seven years of the Fair Credit act, and here's Citibank saying, we think you're a good bet.

Now let's get real here.

Citibank said, oh, she's got a college degree.

She's probably entirely unmarriageable, which means she'll be working forever.

She's going to need to afford groceries and a wardrobe.

She's a good bet to use our debt.

We're going to give her debt.

I know what was really going on.

But you know what a new world it was and how much over the last 40, 50 years it has changed even more that young women have the expectation of having less resistance.

Yeah, they still have plenty of resistance.

But the good news is now we create our own parallel infrastructure.

We're not waiting for a seat at the table any longer.

That's right.

We're just creating our infrastructure ourselves and don't need to have somebody give us permission.

So then that led you into your business.

So I am a nerd from the get go.

And when my financial planner told me I had always promised myself that I would go back to school, I had a master's degree, but I wanted something, I didn't know what I wanted.

He said, well, getting a certified financial planner credential.

Not only getting the credential, but you have a continuing education requirement every other year.

So you are destined for a lifetime of going to school.

That was one of those.

You had me at hello moments.

Because if somebody was going to tell me that going to school was part of my career, I was in.

I recognize that's not everybody.

Right?

Well, it's one of the things I do best.

And so it makes me happy to impart what I know.

Oh, and that makes so much sense.

You said that with your financial planning business it was to serve your cohort.

What does that mean to you?

What did that mean to you at the time?

What does it mean now?

Women have a very different experience.

The experience of women in the financial planning domain is much like the experience of women in the healthcare domain.

All of the research is done on white men from the 20th century.

That is not to disparage white men in the 20th century.

That is to say that the data isn't there.

So I'm plugging in the holes in the data.

We are in and out of the workforce.

We are behind the eight ball with retirement savings and matches because we are paid less.

We are by and large the caregivers.

And something I spend most of my time discussing is the push and pull of what I call the triple decker club sandwich generation.

This is the first time in history that four and five generations are living contemporaneously.

What does that mean for your kids?

It's actually an extraordinary opportunity because now they know their grandparents into adulthood and grandparents know their grandchildren.

The relationship value is wonderful because one of the things that there's plenty of research that says the relationship of a grandparent, especially a maternal grandmother, can be very different than the relationship of the parent.

There's a reduction of stress there, but there's still a lot of wisdom to pass on.

And so that's very exciting.

That's an opportunity.

I don't like it when the press refers to all of this as some kind of giant problem.

It is still behind and it's not building what boomers want to move into.

So boomers aren't moving in the meantime.

Their kids who aren't launching are coming back.

Now, I think the thing that I want to point out, and I did a webinar just last night, is when our grandparents had their kids, and sometimes when our parents had their kids, they were largely in their 20s, which meant by the time they were in their 50s, their kids were launching.

And that also meant that by the time everybody retired to go play golf or to go spend, I don't know, 30 days traveling Europe to reward themselves, that meant that their parents had passed.

Their parents had already passed on.

We had our kids in our 30s, which means we're not achieving freedom in our 50s, we're achieving freedom in our 60s.

And just as we start to feel like our kids are independent, our parents enter their season of frailty.

Is it easy to go gallivanting halfway around the world when you have an 85 year old mother living at home alone?

No, it is not.

My financial planning solution is that we should all pull it up into our 50s.

We should take a big old sabbatical at about 55 because the kids are old enough not to burn down the house.

The parents are in their 70s, which is this magnificent found decade of activity.

Several, you know, 20, 30 years ago that did not exist.

Now when you are 75, you are still out and about and changing the world.

And that's exciting.

So they're great.

They're still in their 70 to 80s.

You probably have an opportunity, I call it the year of not saving.

To not work so hard to save.

Because compounding at that point is more important than saving additional money.

So I literally tell members and clients, how about you don't contribute in your 55th year to your 401, use that money to take a big old sabbatical and instead avoid distributing for another year.

Yeah.

Maybe work until 66.

And the math of that works extremely well.

Oh, my goodness, Sheri.

It makes so much sense.

I'm 51 and my mother is in her 70s and my father just turned 80.

They're still doing all kinds of really fun stuff, and my girls are at the point where I can leave them and it's fine.

It wouldn't strike me if you hadn't said it.

This could be a very rare time.

This is the opportunity for freedom.

Whether you include anybody in your travels, whether you include your parents or your children, or whether you take something on, this is the time to do it.

So if you're gonna go to law school, go to law school.

If you're gonna travel the world, travel the world.

If you have an employer who does not appreciate what you're trying to do, there's maybe ways to skin that cat.

I had suggested to a member that she wants to park in Vancouver.

She wants to.

And I said, okay, take your two weeks vacation, get into an Airbnb in Vancouver, but then negotiate working remotely two weeks before and two weeks after work during the week and travel around the Pacific Northwest on the weekend.

She's like, that's a great idea.

I'm going to go do that.

Fingers crossed.

She can get all six weeks in.

But really, this is the time to spend that contribution and not worry about it.

Because the thing that makes for more successful retirements.

I hate to put on my planner hat, but the thing that mostly makes for successful retirements now is delaying distribution, not working harder because the compounding effect is so great.

And even for super wealthy people, it's really hard to fund 40 years of retirement.

My mother's the best example.

She's just not going anywhere.

I took her to the doctor yesterday and she got back in the car and said, I'm afraid I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.

That's nice, mother.

That's fine.

Well, and we need to plan for that.

Right?

It's to be so fortunate to live that long.

And we want to do it in a way that is honorable to ourselves.

Right?

Like, let's Take care of that 98 year old me and you and also our mothers.

And it's a tricky thing to do.

Right?

So getting your metrics together is not just financial.

It's not just knowing where your money is.

Dr. Peter Attia, Dr. Mark Hyman, they will all tell you this is the decade to understand your metrics and fix your glucose metabolism, fix your cardiovascular profile, maintain your mobility, work on your skills.

Because when you're 85, there is not going to be one last bank teller at the end of the hall waiting for you to do a transaction.

You are just going to have to learn how to bank on your phone and whatever the next technology is.

And I think that people tend to be resistant.

I mean, I understand why they're resistant, but my answer is, don't be.

You have enough Runway to start something and finish something.

The press makes me cranky.

The press will tell you about life expectancy, that you're going to live.

I believe the number these days is 83 for men and 85 for women.

And that's an average.

It means half the people are going to live longer.

But what they don't tell you is that the older you get, the older you get.

So if you are healthy at 65, that number jumps to 85 and 87.

Yeah.

And if you use health care, if you are someone who is wealthy, that number's 89.

So, I mean, these are crazy numbers.

Now, let's do some quick math.

You have been in the workforce, I'm guessing somewhere between 25 and 30 years.

Yeah, 30 years.

Okay, well, at 51, add 30 years.

Do you have time to have another 5x exits?

Like, do you?

I.

Of course I do.

Do whatever you want to.

There you go.

Certainly not done.

I still feel like the best is yet to come.

And I love the unfolding of life at this phase.

So to your point, to embrace it and to learn and to grow and find what it is that you love so that you can bring that into life in whatever way brings you joy.

Right.

You have enough Runway.

I think the real question is, when people come to me and they come to me all the time, what should I invest in?

The answer is always your health.

Always your health.

And more.

I love that you're suggesting times when we're not just thinking about the metrics that are financial and we're not just thinking about saving, but we're thinking about life, and we're thinking about purpose and joy and relationships, using our funding, our dollars to fund our best selves, our goals, our dreams.

People think I'm going to make them wrong for wanting to spend, which I think is a little crazy because there are actually two ways to flunk retirement.

One is to run out of money.

But the other one is to wake up at 90 and have millions of dollars in the bank, no one to leave it to and realize, oh, my gosh, I could have done a lot more.

Balancing that is hard.

There's a YOLO factor to planning.

And I've told people who have dreams to, you know, I've given them permission to go follow the dream.

Go do it.

And my biggest thing now is do it 10 years earlier.

Do it.

Do it while you still have the knees and the hips to climb an alp or into Machu Picchu.

I gotta tell you, the Inca Trail is tough.

That walk is tough.

I've done it.

And it is remarkable.

And to think that you would wait too long to be able to do these things.

And you're right, because you sort of tell yourself, well, maybe in my 60s, maybe in my 70s.

But then, gee, you know, life does get more complicated with your parents.

Maybe your kids start having kids and grandparenthood takes over.

So, Sheri, I am curious, like a lot of my listeners, most of my listeners are founders.

Some are in their 50s.

But founding a business, growing a business, how much to keep, how much to reinvest back into the business, all these things, exits, what are some of the things that you advise?

How do you, how do you think about owning a company, running a company?

Like, as a woman, we, you know, I think women treat themselves less like businesses.

But number one, I am a big fan of always having a forget you fund.

One of the reasons that I was able to go into sales, one of the reasons I was able to change careers is because I had a forget you fund.

Sometimes you have to use it.

It's different than your emergency fund.

The emergency fund is for emergency.

The forget you fund is a startup fund to get you out of a toxic employment before the next thing is lined.

It is a fund to remove you from a dangerous situation and put you in a hotel for some time, whatever it is.

Or a bad marriage, right?

Or a marriage, you need extra money.

And so the rules of business is be properly, have your eyes open and be properly capitalized.

Not that cash flow doesn't get tight.

It gets tight for all businesses.

When poor people borrow money, it's called debt.

When wealthy people borrow money, it's called leverage.

Seems to me it's the same thing, folks.

Anyhow, I think the most important Thing the old Stephen Covey begin with the end in mind is to have an exit idea or strategy coming into the what I want to do.

Because that is going to tell you whether you have a labor of love or a business.

And the second, I think is terribly important.

Of course, I'm a financial planner.

My feeling is that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships.

And that is the contingency plan.

What is the backup if things don't go according to plans?

Because things never go according to plan.

They never go according to plan.

And I worry about founders, funders, business owners who don't wake up one morning.

We want them to leave with a fishing rod over their shoulder and a tackle box under their arm, you know, or waltzing off to Pilates at 10am there's no right answer.

But what if they don't?

Who is on the hook?

What does it look like for their loved ones?

What does it look like for their customers and clients?

What does it look like for their employees?

I feel very strongly that as soon as you declare yourself a business, you need to look at what if.

That is frequently the work of business planners.

Sometimes they can fix the what if with a financial solution.

But I'm not even talking about the financial solution.

I'm talking about what happens if somebody doesn't wake up tomorrow morning.

Because that is life and it comes at you fast.

Yeah, it happens.

It can be at different versions of it.

Have a baby and the baby has special needs and you need to take time off or get cancer and it takes you down for a while.

Right.

You need to have a way.

I agree with you a hundred percent.

Like being able to think about your business, think about the end in mind.

I always believe that when you plan for your business to have as many possible exits available that you actually make the best business decisions to keep it yourself.

Right.

To keep and own it as your own asset forever.

So I love that.

I think that's really important advice for founders.

So you got to a point with your business that you.

You sold it?

I did.

And so that was my succession plan.

I think that in financial planning, succession planning is extremely important because I am exercising fiduciary responsibility for your money.

And that's important to you?

Absolutely.

So that's a relationship that we've invested a lot of time in.

It was very important to me.

And I'm actually going to plug her because I feel that I did something right.

So in the process of patting myself on the head, I went into my alumni network, I went to the University of Rochester.

Like you, I went into the Women's Alumni Network and came up with the lovely Christine Lamuti, a Simon grad.

She spent a year shadowing me so that when it came time to transition, my clients, they knew her.

We had a very specific workflow whereby I led a meeting, she shadowed.

She led a meeting, I shadowed.

And then we saw what was needed to be done.

And so it was a very smooth transition that enabled me, 10 months out, to set a date and say, okay, December 31st is my final day.

Amazing.

I feel like I met Christine.

Yes.

At her.

To my home.

Christine is a member of How Women Lead and How Women Invest.

She's my ride or die.

We are separated by 30 years and probably a foot in height and could not be more different, but we see the world the same way.

It's a joy to travel the universe with her and to mentor her as she begins her career.

And this is something people don't think about because in a few years, if I ever get around to actually retiring, she's going to be my financial advisor.

We get caught up in our relationships because they're so good to us for so long not realizing that just when we need our financial planner, they're going to retire, too.

Yeah.

And so true.

And I don't want a financial planner who's my age.

I want a financial planner who's 20 or 30 years younger.

So true.

It's really true.

Oh, my goodness.

Again, I just got through saying I'm not young, not done, and I'm not.

But I still don't want.

Yeah, totally.

Well, I love that.

I think it's having that succession in place and Christine being there as someone who can learn from you and you can have this reciprocal relationship with her for the listeners.

Sheri and I met through How Women Lead.

I think I hosted an event here.

You came to the event.

We might have met before that at another one.

I don't recall.

And that was how we met.

That was.

Right.

And you brought Christine.

And that was probably a year ago, maybe a little more.

And we've just had a blast getting to know each other and running into each other in all the places around town here in New York and beyond.

I think this is another piece of it for women.

Right?

Like, let's find each other and celebrate each other and help each other learn and grow professionally, personally.

Just finding each other's joy is so important.

So at what point did you start, Madrina?

Molly, I just want to acknowledge what you just said because I think you said it mouthful sometimes it takes a long time to feel like you've entered the right room with women who think the way you think.

Your founders out there listening, the network that you love dearly, the crowd you can cry to in the middle of the night, they may not be the fierce advocates for your business.

They may not be the same women.

That doesn't mean they don't love you and haven't loved you for however many years you've known one another.

But they may not be the same women.

What got you here may not get you there.

That's true.

Relative to what you said, I think that there's so much joy in finally feeling like I'm in the right room.

I attended a limited partner retreat in Mill Valley and it could not have been more awesome.

So, doubling down on what you said, Madrina Mali.

Thank you for asking.

I realize that I am not done being a certified financial planner practitioner.

There's a part of me that has always found so much joy in teaching.

Women come to me uncertain.

They feel like they miss the memo.

I'm talking about extremely well to do women.

Maybe high cash flow, looking to become wealthy.

Maybe women who are already wealthy.

I mean, women with eight digit net worths looking me in the eye and their opening salvo is you're gonna tell me I'm doing everything wrong.

How is that possible?

How is that even possible?

So I think the origin of Madrina Molly is to remove the final excuse for not asking questions you don't know the answer to about personal finance.

And there are CEOs, CFOs, founders, and big shots who just need someone.

It's safe to ask.

Many of these people are delegating the financial management to their significant other.

Not that their significant other isn't good at it, but they want better questions to ask.

Maybe they don't particularly like their significant other's financial advisor.

Or maybe that advisor is just an investment advisor, not a planner.

Investment a planner.

But they're not.

They call themselves a wealth manager, but all they do is grow the portfolio.

I think it's important to provide a safe space, like literally a safe space online and on my zoom to answer questions.

I anonymize them Dear Abby style, inside the community.

And I tell the story so that everybody can get the answer.

And sometimes people are happy applying their name to it.

And sometimes it's just a private conversation that they know I'm going to anonymize and repeat.

The idea is to charge a nominal amount, just enough to keep people honest to answer questions in a fiduciary capacity relative to framing the problem.

There are only 25,000 women CFPs and we all have full calendars.

When I was in practice, squeezing in an extra appointment without destroying my life was hard.

If you want something, you work hard to get it.

But in the end nobody ever wishes they had worked harder.

We each get 168 hours a week.

You get it, I get it.

We can't manufacture more and it's how we use it that counts.

I feel like Madrina Molly is such a wonderful offering because it can transcend giving your wisdom and creating that community within just that one on one time.

It allows you to reach so many more people than you would if you only only could meet with people one at a time.

This is the thing that I think is so powerful about it.

And why so wanted you to be on the show Because I feel like it's so accessible for women at really any stage.

And I know you're focused on helping women a little bit older my age and older, but I think it's valuable for women at any stage.

I really do.

Thank you for saying that.

I am finding that there are plenty of people for the young women coming up, but my members are starting to skew younger.

They're skewing into their 40s.

I understand why.

The reason I understand why is because this sandwich generation, because I'm living it.

I understand what it's like to be a woman with her mother's spare rollator in the boot and her grandchildren spare child seat in the back of the same suv.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'm just like these are both labors of love.

They are both non negotiable, they're both happening.

And how many women are in that situation?

A lot.

And guess what?

A lot of men are now in that situation.

The number of caregivers who are men is increasing dramatically.

Which gives me hope that something might be done about the caregiving industry and our general needs.

You know, I'm gonna.

I have to put my feminist hat on here because in my walks and yes, I walk every day at least three miles, I am listening to Doris Stevens.

Doris Stevens, Jailed for Freedom is the book on which Suffs was based.

Saw the musical, which is now going on national tour.

And it is my hope that Suffs is to women's history in the 20th century what Hamilton was to the founders in the 18th century.

It is the story.

And just the fact that they tortured Woodrow Wilson and it gave them great joy to torture him.

And we are still trying to get it on the books, so to speak, even though it's ratified.

But what a disservice men and women who spoke against it have done to everyone.

Because if we had had an infrastructure that ensured pay parity, we would have more men, teachers, and young boys who are in crisis would have better male role models if we had healthcare research parity earlier.

And our healthcare system would be in better shape, not just for women, but for men too.

We have a caregiving crisis because women are not in a position to care for men.

And frankly, they've done it because they voted against their own interests.

I always feel I should not take back my power.

I need to be unabashedly visible.

I feel like I should apologize a little for putting on that feminist hat.

But I think that we've been coerced to believe that these are not pro business policies.

And universal healthcare, universal daycare, universal elder care, these are actually all pro business policies.

They grow the economy.

In my healthcare company, one of my primary concerns was childcare for my nurses.

Most of my nurses were women and many of them have children.

If you have a child that's sick, you're not going to work from a business perspective.

You're not filling hours, you're not generating revenue.

Though we've been sold a little bit of a bill of goods, need to go into why.

But to bring it back to suffs and Doris Stevens.

This is a story that needs to be told because history is written by the winners.

We are in the process of, as Lin Manuel Miranda said, writing ourselves back into the story.

We need to write ourselves back into the story.

I love that.

That makes so much sense for us to think of ourselves as the heroes and to write ourselves into the story, wherever we are.

Let's transition to our fast fire round where I'll give you five questions to answer in five words or less.

So what's a word that describes how you want women to feel about money?

Confident.

What's your personal definition of freedom?

Doing what I want with my 168 hours a week.

Beautiful.

What's a belief about aging?

You are here to destroy.

You have far more Runway than you think.

You said you got a 747's worth of Runway there.

Awesome.

So what's your superpower as a woman of a certain agency?

I am no longer burdened by whether or not anyone finds me intimidating.

All five feet of me.

I am no longer burdened by anyone finding me intimidating.

What's one thing women over 50 bring to business that the world desperately needs more of?

Practicality.

Practicality.

By the time you're in your 50s, you can solve problems far quicker and better than young people in the manner for sure.

Easier.

Practicality.

Practicality.

How can our listeners learn more about you and tap into your wisdom?

Sheri, you can find me@madrinamali.com I publish a substack.

I have of course the membership.

You can read all about it there.

I didn't.

There.

It's worth every single penny and it's not a lot of pennies.

Thank you for saying that.

They only have a cost to non members.

So depending upon, you know what you're looking for, obviously I take my input from the membership and I am going to give a masterclass in January that has gotten a lot of a lot of good press the last time I gave it.

And that's how to prepare for a down market.

All markets present opportunities.

And yet we insist upon freaking out because the press tells us to freak out.

Well, how about we don't freak out?

How about we see the opportunity and plan to take advantage of it while the press is running around with their hair on fire topics as requested by the membership.

And there's joy in entering the teaching part of my career, although I always thought that I was a teacher.

And you know what I learn as well.

And I learn from you, Coco.

And I learn from all of the women who are part of how women lead.

Thank you, Sheri.

Thank you for joining us today on the Wisdom of Women show.

Thank you for giving us access to your wisdom and opportunities for for growth and for all of our world changing listeners.

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