Navigating the Landscape of Copywriting and Affiliate Marketing with Debra Pivko

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice and wisdom of women in business.

A new model of leadership is emerging and we are here to amplify the voice of women leading the way.

I am your host Coco Sellman, impact investor, five time founder, creator of the Force for Good System.

And thank you so much for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

So today I'm super excited we're going to talk to somebody who is going to enlighten us all on copywriting and affiliate marketing.

So today we have Deborah P.

A powerhouse in copywriting, branding and business strategy with over two decades of experience driving conversations and building standout brands.

As the CEO of Intrigue Creative, she has worked with industry giants like Beachbody, gnc, Dermalogica and Casper crafting compelling campaigns that generate demand and sales at record breaking rates.

A co founder of Female Power Players, which I can't wait to talk about, Deborah is a passion is passionate about empowering women entrepreneurs through a thriving community of over 85,000 business leaders and marketers.

Her expertise extends to leading high performance teams such as managing 22 writers to create $8,000 in daily revenue across eight websites.

A cancer survivor, an advocate for women supporting women, Deborah brings unmatched wisdom, creativity and authenticity to help founders build businesses of substance and scale.

Welcome Deborah.

Thank you so much for that wonderful intro.

I'm just so happy to chat with you and hopefully impart some wisdom and I'm always learning and I can't wait to learn from you too.

Oh Deborah, it's a pleasure.

So I'd love to hear what is a book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your life?

It's hard to pick just one, but I'm constantly reading self help books and business books and I love listening to audiobooks on Libby and I cannot wait to read your book coming out.

And if I can, I would love to talk about a book that I wrote a long time ago.

My first book called how to Be a Man Magnet by Deborah the Dating Diva.

This was before I was with my fiance and even though I've always been a copywriter writing to people in companies, voices and other people's voices, it was really fun to use my own voice and help people gain confidence and magnetic energy and how to attract people whether it's men or business, business or anything.

So that was really fun and it's being optioned to be potentially turned into a movie.

So I'm very excited about that.

And I'm currently writing and stop me if I'm giving too much, but I'm currently.

Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, so my bestie and I are currently writing a book called Bestie Self and it's about all the different life buckets and finding balance in those.

I realized that I was all in on work and I did not take care of other buckets like passion projects and health and, you know, all the different buckets.

So it's kind of like a way that you can work through balancing those different buckets of life and finding balance every day, constantly, and also making big and little decisions with your bestie.

So it's going to be fun.

It's a fun book coming out.

And I love anything by Miriam Williamson.

I'm all about.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm all about spirituality of being a good person and love and just contributing to the universe.

However I can love it.

So how to be a man magnet.

I cannot wait to get this.

I mean, honestly, this is awesome because it's all that, that juicy, fun energy of attracting good things to your life.

It applies in all categories of life.

Just when you.

When you are able to get yourself to reach that high vibration where you're aligned with your purpose and what you like to do and what you like to offer, I feel like the right things come towards you, no doubt.

And it is so much more fun.

That's one of the things that women in business do better.

When we're having fun, when we're in delight and passion, we're connected to our senses, our businesses and our lives skyrocket.

Would you agree with that?

Lately, that's something I've been focusing on in the past couple of years.

With the invention of AI, I've just been trying to not see it as a threat and replacement and see it as fun and play.

In all honesty, I'm having fun with it.

From making little gummy bear dresses with my nieces to writing poetry.

I never thought I would do before.

And I'm just trying to have fun with it.

The other day I got on a call with one of my friends and, you know, I was like, did you know you could have a podcast of 12 episodes for your business within 30 seconds with Notebook LM?

And I showed it to her and she was mind blown.

I'm just trying to play with it.

What I love about AI and that type of stuff is that you can talk to it.

It's not as technical as some people might think.

You can Talk like you're talking to a friend or I'm talking to you now and say what you want to create even if you don't have the technical knowledge or background.

So I love that.

Just playing and having fun.

And I'm still constantly pivoting.

I'm like a Roomba hitting the wall, but I'm finding my way.

Hit the wall and pivot right, dance.

I love that.

So your career has spanned everything from crafting copy for iconic brands to co founding this most recent venture, Female Power Players.

How is your journey shaped, your philosophy and what it takes to build a brand that resonates and converts?

That's a really good question.

There's so many aspects to it, but I think it honestly comes down to serving a need.

If there's the problem, yo, I'd solve it.

I know that's not an eloquent way of saying it from ice, ice, ice baby, back in the day.

But.

I love that.

I just say whatever comes to mind, but it's really about connecting with your customers.

So I had mastered how to connect with people to sell them products and services and I had done that for 20 years and I really wanted to get to know people even more and make that shift a little bit from the direct response world to learn more about the B2B world and the affiliate marketing world.

So it's a totally different beast and it's this enigmatic playground.

So I have learned a ton in that way.

But really it's about relationships when you get into B2B and understanding what people need.

And the timing is very different too.

First of all, I created Female Power Players because my fiance, who I've been with for nine years, does an award show, the Affiliate Ball, with 3,000 people and artists like Snoop Dogg, T.

Pain and Ludacris.

And we have Harry Mack coming up, although his house just burned down, but, but he's alive.

Lots happen.

There's fires surrounding us five minutes away.

There's, you know, it's one of, that's one other lesson is like dancing through the storms.

But yeah, I created Female Power Players because I wanted to feature all these incredible women that are doing amazing things and have these amazing ideas.

It was such a male dominated industry.

So it's, it's really, it's a way for.

Plus, of course he didn't want me getting to know all the men.

So I was like, why not have a bunch of new and get to know everyone?

And I'm a meddler.

He calls me his gold meddler.

I like to help However I can.

So I'm constantly meeting new people and connecting them to each other and all of that.

So yeah, I love that.

Gold meddler.

The relationships are important and I think sometimes you hear it from our experts like you.

There really has to be a pronounced need.

And sometimes that's a piece especially if you're not gaining traction.

Right?

Like it's because some part of the need isn't really clear.

Do you see that?

In direct response?

I could write something somebody would read it and purchase within 30 seconds or maybe during a follow up email or an upsell or downsell or retargeting ad.

But in B2B and partnerships, you may not hear back from someone for three years and that's okay.

I heard from somebody that I had a call with once three years later.

And the same thing happens when I meet people.

They become a part of my inner toolkit.

And I know that when I need something, I'll think of them and call on them.

And it's a slower burn.

When I first started Female Power Players, I was asking for the sale too soon because that's what I had learned to do really well.

But I learned that it works very differently in the B2B world.

Switching careers, starting a new business, waiting for a lawsuit to finish.

Timing is a big part of it too, too.

It's not like with copywriting, direct response where you could just overcome every objection before buying.

It's a bigger piece of the puzzle, but it's really fascinating.

It's very true.

Then you need to stay in touch and stay relevant until they're ready for the CRM system or they're ready to start new services with a new outsourced finance operation or they need a new website.

So it's just a matter of staying engaged and reminding them of the need over time.

And then when they need it, there you are.

Now that we're throwing parties almost once a month in the affiliate marketing and performance marketing space, I'm getting to see these people and check in every once in a while.

I love conversations like the one we're having now because it's not blasting music in the background and people constantly tapping me on the shoulder saying hey, like, nice to meet you.

Fun too.

But like, you get to get into the nitty gritty.

When we have an event or attend trade shows and other events every month or so, you get to see what someone's up to.

And sometimes it takes like three to five times of meeting somebody before you even remember them.

And that's why when we throw the award?

Well, when my fiance and his partner and me, the gold meddler throw and his TNT throw, the awards show, the AFI Awards and performance marketing, we have comedians, we had Jeff Ross and Ben Gleb so far, roast the winners so that when they're on stage, it kind of gives you some way to remember them.

It was very offensive, but it was all in good fun.

It helps you remember people.

And then when you see them at an event, you're like, oh, you know, I remember you.

And that's something that I'm passionate about too, is that it's branding, because when you're a sponsor or when you win an award, it's that getting to know of you so that when you do approach somebody, they kind of have a sense of who you are as opposed to feeling like you're just a walking advertisement.

That's true.

It's so true.

So I'm curious.

You've talked a little bit about it with your bestie self and how to create more adaptability and resilience.

But I know you've had lots of pivots.

I imagine that when you had cancer, there was probably some setting of new boundaries, new priorities.

So what have you learned about resilience and adaptability through some of these pivots and through your illness?

That is something I am learning constantly.

I was talking with my aunt the other day saying, you never stop learning, you know, at any age.

I was sort of a born overachiever, and I put all of my efforts into achieving and making money and working constantly.

I realized when I had to go through cancer treatment the hard way because I was still working through it and after it, I've learned a ton, but by doing it the wrong way, sometimes you have to hit a guardrail to know how far to go.

So taking on too many clients and burnout, I felt like my work was suffering.

What I've done, like you said, is come up with boundaries and not be ashamed of them.

I kind of tweaked my clientele base where I would work on certain days and not have any meetings on those days, so that I could do more than a week's worth of work in one day.

Because the creative brief would be completely done, the expectations were set.

I could just kind of be in my world.

I work really quickly already.

But with ChatGPT, I feel like an AI, right?

No, you can be so much more prolific.

You can be so much more productive and work quickly.

But boundaries was important because I knew that at first it was hard.

To be honest, I was like, well, who's going to hire me if I'm only working two days a week?

And it doesn't fit into these boxes.

I realized that sometimes you have to blaze your own trail and others can, can follow.

I, I think that's amazing sometimes.

It's a good question for us all to imagine how we can change the way we do things so we can work less because life happens.

You never know whether it's happening to yourself or a loved one or maybe just a simple choice to just, I don't want to do this anymore.

I need a break, right?

And, and it's not just boundaries too, you know, it's.

It's like finding your passion and purpose.

I knew that I was able to write, copy and sell anything and I knew that, that there was other things that I could potentially do.

And a lot of my friends like myself are multi passionate and that can be a spinning wheel in the head that can go and go.

So I've given myself and this has been hard to do because, you know, I always say, well, is it going to make money?

Why should I do it?

So, you know, I finally gotten to the point, luckily where I'm like, what would I want to spend my time doing?

What fills me up and what can I give other people?

I'm still figuring that out and testing and playing and I'm doing it on a small scale so that I see that once something like, I'm also writing.

Like, for example, I saw all these women and all these different women's group looking for jobs and having trouble getting them.

So I wrote a resource guide for our sidecash.com and I'm going to make that available for just a couple bucks very soon.

It's written, just need to design it with AI.

And I found out you can design courses with prompts through Canva within ChatGPT.

I'm constantly trying to play and not get caught up in the end result because that became a blocker for a while.

Like, well, is, you know, is this going to make money?

Is who's this perfect for?

And I just got to the point where I was like, no, I want to do what works for me and hopefully other people will benefit from it too.

Couple things you said the idea of experimentation, right?

Try things out.

Because sometimes what's working and what you enjoy changes too.

And it's good to try new things out, see what happens, follow your interest.

There's a group of people that could use this guide.

I, I just feel like I'm going to do it.

I Think what happens with that too is that through fits and starts we find our way.

Right.

And then it leads us to being able to do bigger things.

And it kind of leads me to your two things.

One is like, I love the way you are thinking about copywriting and how you can do it and still make money but not have it be connected so deeply to your time.

I'm always looking for ways to not have money be in exchange for time.

And.

And I'm always encouraging founders to do that too.

I see that with you with the female power players, there's such an opportunity there for you to create community.

Tell us what female power players is and what your vision is and how you are able to leverage your time with that.

Sure.

One of the things that you made me think of when playing around with what to do next, I always thought of it like throwing stones at something until you have a rock to stand on.

That's what I did with Entry Creative and Female Power Players.

Female Power Players has been a lot of fun.

There's so much to say about it.

But let me start with what it is right now.

It's about a year and a half old and it is written interviews with incredible women in business like you and yours is going to be coming out soon.

I can't wait.

I really dive into how I met that person.

A lot of this industry is trust and relationships.

It's not just a random sales pitch.

It's really get to know this person and who they are and, and I'm an obsessive researcher and I like to know everything about what everyone's doing.

So, you know, because there's always connections we can make.

So I, I've learned a ton about things I don't even need to know like pay per call and, and you know, obviously I need to know about ad buying but.

But I really dive into each person's work and story.

I use ChatGPT to help me figure out what burning questions somebody might have for that person specifically.

So it's a really great way to feature somebody to promote visibility, recognition, celebrating work, getting the word out.

Because I want someone to feel proud of themselves and able to pitch but to many people at once as if they're talking one on one.

Well, and I have to say that the everybody that's listening go to the website, right?

Go to female powerplayers.com and check out the.

All the, the different interviews that Deborah's done because it's, it's just like you're saying, only even better because each of the People that you've, you've interviewed, it is like you've given them a massive marketing, like, you know, like great language, all the things laid out beautifully when you need them, how you need them, the unique selling value and without it being salesy.

It's very friendly but organized and it's beautifully languaged.

So I think it's a great thing you're doing for people, but for anybody that I think it's wonderful for us all to go and find different resources and find women that can support us in our own businesses and find out what they're doing and connect with them.

And it's great for us individually that you are interviewing because the language is so good, the writing is really excellent.

The women are incredible.

These women have done such incredible things and like you said, read their interviews and see how they can help scale your own business.

Even if it's a service that you might not be able to afford at the time, you can chat with them, have a call.

There might be some synergies.

You might be able to do some kind of collaboration chat with the women that are featured.

They're wonderful.

So.

And you're continuing to grow this network with Female Power players, right?

People can request to be interviewed, correct?

Yes, they can request to be interviewed.

Just send me a message anytime.

I'm reachable in a few places which we could go over later.

More too, but debrapivkomail.com or you can join for free.

The LinkedIn group Female Power Players.

There's a Facebook group, Female Power Players.

We are constantly throwing events and I post about a lot of those events in the groups and I post resources.

So if you sign up for my Fiance's newsletter@affiliateball.com for free, you'll get notified of all the events.

And we feature the women in the newsletter.

It's almost 90,000 trade show attending performance marketers and business owners.

Anything from people that own networks to call centers to publishers, advertisers, SMS people.

There's a cool network of people and we get to see them about once a month now.

We host these parties to help everyone network with each other and we've won two weeks in Vegas.

There's one in in Vegas coming up.

What's the date?

So that's February 3rd.

Okay, so this will probably come out after that, unfortunately.

But there's probably others.

There's probably others, yes.

We're doing stuff about once a month now.

And there's another one coming up.

It's usually during Affiliate Summit, which is twice a year.

And then there's also the AFI Awards at Lead Generation World next year in San Diego.

My fiance and his partner, who owns Lead Generation World, are working on.

Oh, cool.

So we threw an LA party.

We just came back from Florida and we threw.

Oh, my God, we're holding alligators at the party, eating pizza.

We found out 3% of people might have ate ostrich pizza because we didn't label the pizzas.

They ran out of alligator pizza.

But we had a rock band.

We had some of the performance marketers come up for an impromptu talent show to sing with the rock band, which was super fun.

And I got to see some of my female power plays in person.

We're all wearing our Power Play necklaces and took a lot of photos.

Each party is very different, different personality.

So, you know, Snoop Dogg has performed a couple times or no, sorry, DJed.

He was a DJ.

And we've had Ludacris, T.

Pain and Method Man a couple times.

One time we couldn't get Method man and it was such a scary night.

And then I remember in the elevator, we were like, what do we do?

People will still come, but we can't let them down.

And we got acon within 20 hours.

It was very stressful, but it's a fun roller coaster.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

So tell us about.

I know you've used the term, you know, getting together as a network.

There's also people I know that are focused on affiliate marketing.

Can you tell us about what that is and how the business gets done?

Yeah.

So, you know, the expert I would say would probably be my fiance.

But from what I've seen, it's really for somebody that doesn't know because it's this kind of mysterious playground where people sort of keep a lot of their business tactics under the vest until you feel comfortable enough with somebody to trust them and get to know them.

Because a lot of people get burned and there's a lot of partnerships and that type of thing.

But basically, if I were to explain it to someone who had no idea, like a kindergartner, I would say, you know, like, say I was selling these necklaces.

How would I get the word out?

We'd say, okay, well, there's a network that has different offers, and they could put your offer of your necklace in their network so that they can pitch it to different sources of traffic, which is just people that want to buy the product, and then they pay a percentage to the person selling the necklace.

So basically, it's a way to get products and services out.

But it can get kind of complicated when it comes to how many facets there are to it in terms of call centers to call people and SMS and there's parties specifically for SMS and call centers and then there's people that buy and sell the data for who to market it to.

And then there's networks that only offers and there's advertisers that so, so all of these people get together at my fiance's events and at the.

He also threw a trade show at the expo.

Everyone gets together to support each other and partner together and get everyone's offers there.

It's fun because there's a lot of technical aspects to it which I enjoy.

I love technology and marketing.

There's always something new.

Every time I talk to somebody or go to one of these events, I always hear someone trying something interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

And so with intrigue, creative, like how do you help founders in that way?

What are some of the primary services you offer?

So it's mostly copywriting and it's really customized to where that person or company is at.

If I'm working with one person, I'm going to give them the whole roadmap, but keep it quick and scrappy.

They may not have a budget like these larger companies.

So I'm still going to give them what they need but at the level they needed.

And you can hire a writer to fill in these blanks right here or you can use these as templates.

If I'm working with a bigger company like when I worked with Procter and Gamble or Inogen, there's a department for everything and there's approvals for everything.

So you know, really it's sort of just following along, filling in a message that's already been created.

I can do anything from create a brand, brand voice for a company to mapping out their sales funnel of how to access and reach their and convert their customers.

Anything from the advertisement on a Google or Facebook ad to a landing page or from a quiz to a direct to cart page and I map it out and then I write all the copy.

I really just try to figure out what that company needs.

I'm not afraid to say ideas that come up as I go that will help.

People tend to make a lot of money when they, they use my work.

It's an area a lot of people listening today are thinking about how they can improve their conversion rate.

A lot of people use social Google Ads, some are on Amazon.

Almost everybody these days has a website.

So you know, how do you, you know, email campaigns all those things, you know, even speeches.

Speeches.

Right, right.

And speeches.

And even email acquisition series.

That's been something that's done really well for my clients.

I've done that a ton of times where I out.

It basically just means emailing either your audience or an audience that you purchase or an audience with intent multiple times with different reasons to buy.

So let's say the necklace again, does it make you thinner?

That could be a whole email about that.

Does it attract abundance just to see what brings somebody in?

Yeah.

So.

And you know, with, with ChatGPT and AI now, it's really made it go even so much quicker because I have templates from 22 years of work.

I can upload a templ and say, hey, here's something I did, you know, here's a 50 page document of an email acquisition series.

Can you help me craft this for something else?

And you know, even though anyone can prompt chatgpt, I feel like because I have a lot of the direct response tactics that I've learned over the decades, I'm able to do it in a more efficient way than a newbie.

Totally.

I understand completely.

It's all about how you ask the question, right?

Oh my God, I want to write a book called Ask better questions for ChatGPT.

So many ideas.

And you just made me think, yeah, like you could, you could say, okay, I, I wrote this email campaign over here, you know, it had 27 parts and now I want to write another one that models this one.

And here's my market, here's what they need, and here's who you know, here's the product and what it attributes and benefits are.

And then you can go back in and edit it.

You never want to take the first look, right.

But then you can sort of get into each paragraph and be like, okay, now Chat, help me with this paragraph.

You can start defining the unique selling proposition and overcoming objections.

Is there another word for this?

Or, you know, there's ways you can tweak it.

Yes, yes, really get into the imagery too, which is fun, you know, especially with mid journey.

ChatGPT isn't as great with images, but midjourney I'm able to create really I stopping ads with Mid Journey.

So it's sort of like you can do the work of a whole staff now that you can use AI for anything.

I'm still learning more every day.

And you were just talking earlier about another one that you used to make, Canva.

What was it?

Oh, you said Canva with chat and you said another one to make podcasts.

Oh, that's Notebook lm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was checking that out earlier today and I have to spend more time with it, but it looks really cool.

It looks like there's so many things to do.

I think it's going to be interesting to see, you know, when everyone starts using these things, are they going to be labeled as built with AI?

I think that it's going to be because.

Interesting to see.

You know, you could even have like a celebrity do something these days.

So, you know, we had a deal with a celebrity in the works and I was like, darren, anyone can make this now, even if the celebrity's not doing it.

What is performance marketing?

It's a good question.

I would describe it as ways to promote a product or service focused on making money and conversion.

Whereas branding would be, who is this company?

What kind of personality do they have?

What can they offer you?

Marketing involves all the people, partners and tools that help convert sales.

Okay.

The best description, but that's just how I would describe it.

Wonderful.

Because I was imagining maybe there are these people that were going to go and do performances in the middle of Times Square or something.

I like it, though.

I need to dig in a little bit on this.

It's sort of like design thinking, in a sense.

Thinking about your customer journey and, and plotting out the steps and.

And that the.

All the different props, the marketing tools.

And if you're in a space, if it's real retail or if you're in a health care facility, what you're experiencing and what you're going through and who are all the players, who's at the front desk?

Yeah, it's all the little facets that surround a product or service.

So it's anything from, you know, what are the compliance laws for what you can on a website to, you know, maybe now you need to know that there's two step verification or not verification.

Two step on.

On sending an sms.

We had an SMS business for a couple of years and the rul change very fast.

But like you said, it's all those people and companies around the product or service that help make it sell.

Got it.

So when you talk about performance, you're talking about conversion performance.

Got it.

Got it.

That's a term I had not heard of before.

Oh, interesting.

I just.

When you're dealing with something all the time, I just assume that people know, but it is one of those industries where it's a bit of an enigma.

Awesome.

I just love it.

So let's see, you've worked with Startups and large scale companies, what are the biggest pitfalls you see, especially when founders are scaling and how can they overcome or avoid these pitfalls to fuel their growth while maintaining their authenticity?

There's, I mean, goodness, there's so many things.

But you know, when I've worked with startups, you kind of perform multiple.

It's like, think of it like, like a, like a band, you know, startups like the garage band and the big company, like let's say Procter and Gamble is like the orchestra.

When going from the garage band to the orchestra, you have to be careful not to scale too fast because you don't want to lose the why values and goals of your company.

You want to hire the right people that are fueling the right message.

Sometimes startups think they can scale quickly, but at what price?

They can SC to profit.

But you want healthy growth where each customer and, and every employee is on the same page because you can have people with all these scattered ideas.

And if it's not led by a train moving in one direction, it's not going to work as well.

But on the opposite spectrum, it's hard to move a big heavy truck or train.

So big companies can be tricky because they're not always as nimble and quick, quick to pivot.

So it's sort of like metering and slowing down that growth to make sure that everything is in line, if that makes any sense.

No, it does.

Because a lot of times founders have trouble finding that product market fit.

So they really have a product that works and they really have a need that they can articulate and people will start buying it.

And if they have that, that and they start pouring gasoline onto the accelerator to get more sales to happen and they don't have a commitment to and alignment around purpose and values.

You're right.

Then there's that sort of, oh boy, we're growing too fast and suddenly we get carried away.

The train moves off the tracks, right?

Because you want to serve all those people.

If you all influx of customers, do you have enough product?

Do you have enough customer support staff?

You want to make sure you're growing at the right pace, pace in the right direction.

Sometimes it's before you have that product market fit, you can't grow, you're stuck because you can't grow.

And that's where you're trying to figure out what is my need.

As you said, what is that need and what can I offer?

Right?

And sometimes it can shift.

Like sometimes you have to just be really nimble.

I heard from somebody Very smart a couple weeks ago that's very successful that you have to have a very vague idea of the plan and expect.

Expect things to change as you go towards that.

And I'm kind of a shoot the name person sometimes too, so I do believe that.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So how can listeners learn more about you and your services?

So there's a few ways.

One of some of the.

I'll just repeat some of the ones just because.

Why not?

So people can check out the interviews of these incredible business women on femalepowerplayers.com and they can join the female Power players, Facebook or LinkedIn groups.

And then there's also affiliateball.com is my fiance's group.

Or afiexpo.com for the trade show and awards.

If you wanted to join us in the next event, you can sign up for the Affiliate Ball newsletter.

The big events happen twice a year.

We throw little meetups in LA and Florida and different places throughout the year.

But the big ones are Vegas and New York twice a year during Affiliate Summit during Lead Generation World and what else?

And then if anybody wants a complimentary consultation on the phone just to have a little chat with me about how I can help you with copywriting for your company, you can email me@ either debrantriguecreative.com which could be hard to spell, which.

So it's D E B R A at I N T R I g u e creative.com or deborahpifcomail.com and I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn almost all day when I'm not with a specific client or event.

So I'm reachable.

Right.

And we want any.

So any woman founder out there, really check out the Power Players website, the Women Power Players website, because you will want to be interviewed.

You, you will want to have Deborah take you through that journey and, and produce a interview for you.

It's written, it's beautiful.

And you will use that language again over and over.

You'll use it on your bio, your website.

You'll reuse and share the language that a professional copywriter puts together about you and your business.

And it also gets that through our network so you can connect with all the other people that we're connected with.

We're like a big family of friends that travel together.

We're all just talking business all the time.

And I'm excited to do your interview soon.

Deborah, thank you so much.

You're so generous and you have such wonderful energy.

Thank you for sharing your brilliance with us today.

It really touches my heart to be with you and learn all about copywriting, affiliate world and performance marketing.

Yeah.

From the Gold Meddler.

Yes, I have a hat that says Gold Meddler.

Love that.

Oh for everybody listening, thank you so much for being here today.

We really appreciate you, your presence and your connection with us.

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Cheers.

Love it.